Brett:

I'm excited about our next guest. He is all things debt, wanted to help you save 1000s on your mortgage, and also figure out ways to build wealth using debt. He is from my hometown Sacramento. He is an experienced mortgage professional, and he has the knowledge and expertise to again to empower us as we explore our options and so much more. Please welcome to show with me, Matt Gouge.

Matt:

You Nailed it, brother.

Brett:

Well, welcome to the show, Matt, and for our listeners to get to know you for the first time, would you give us a little bit more about your story and your current focus?

Matt:

Matt Gouge, affectionately known as Matt, the mortgage guy, has been in mortgage for about eight years, thoroughly enjoy, empowering folks through education, and I think that that's kind of like, what my YouTube channel is built on what my whole business honestly is built on is, empowering people to make smart decisions around their mortgage through education. when people understand how debt works, they understand how a mortgage works, they understand all the options, they're empowered to make the best decisions, and you've talked about, being a debt expert. That's kind of how I view myself, you've got a financial advisor, who helps you manage assets, you should have a mortgage advisor, it helps you manage debt, because debt is an amazing tool, and the proof is in the pudding with the millions of people that have used debt to accumulate, massive amounts of net worth, and so it's a chainsaw.

You could cut your arm off, or you could be really efficient at cutting down trees. Its debt is a great tool, but if not used properly, it could lead to some devastating stuff like losing an arm. I and my team are trying to help folks we deal with, people buy in their primary home, we deal with investors buying their 17th rental property, and probably everything in between, and, and most of it boils down to, like you said, helping them have a clearer understanding of how to manage their debt in a responsible way because we're probably both old enough that 2008 isn't that far away. There were some people that were over-leveraged overleveraged, setting themselves up in a bad way, and that's the negative example of debt, and then you've got, the people that have absolutely flourished over the last 18 months, leveraging debt in the correct way, and watching assets appreciate, versus inflation.

Brett:

That's fantastic, and now the idea for what the show is all going to be about is all coming to me right now live, and I can already tell that the gift that you've been given, it's empowering people through education, and the expertise that you focused on as debt and you become a master in that, and now we're going to we're gonna apply all of this to basically my story, Matt story. I started in 2006. Matt, when did you start?

Matt:

In mortgage end of 2013?

Brett:

But you grew up in Sacramento during the time when the market crashed and things people were hit, and you remember the I mean, Sacramento is one of the hardest-hit cities in America. In fact, in Lincoln, California, I live in Roseville offices in Folsom, Madsen, Sacramento, this is all kind of the greater Sacramento area. Lincoln, California, in fact, in 2006, was the fastest growing city in America. There are more people. It was growing the fastest, and it was incredible around growth and a credit amount of appreciation, and then we saw the marketplace kind of just for people who were over-leveraged. Who that chainsaw mentality. Were caught either too many rentals or too much debt or lost their jobs. It was a tough time. They were hurt by it. But then the flip side of this. In the last five or six, seven years, people have made fortunes, right fortunes, fortunes, and fortunes, using debt and the proper aspect. What's the number one secret, Matt, when it comes to making sure that debt is your friend and maybe not your enemy?

Matt:

I think people have to do it in a responsible way, and so a lot of folks will get into real estate investing, which is kind of my lane, and they'll want to post one comment. On one piece of content on social media should I buy in this market, and like that's the extent of their research versus, actually doing the work, and figuring out, what a good investment looks like, not just in general, but for them and their goals, and then tailoring the debt to match that, and a couple of examples I'll use for people is, somebody who's trying to build long term wealth, and doesn't need cash flow, they've got a steady job, they plan to work for the next 10, 15, 20 years. That's a different type of investor and a different type of strategy than somebody who says, I'm trying to retire four years from now, I want to build, a rental portfolio that spits off at least $4,500 a month, so I can have my bills paid and not have to worry about working, those are two different debt structures, two different, types of investments.

Everybody has to look at it differently, and that's why it's not a one size fits all, and just like any investment strategy, you don't have an investment advisor saying here's my one strategy, everybody uses it, you're going to be rich, you have investment advisor saying come to me, I'll look at you and your goals and your situation, and tailor a plan that's fit for you, the same thing happens on the debit side, somebody comes to me and, a lot of times we're trying to structure a loan for this purchase of a rental property. But to really do it right, I want to know what your future plans are. Is your primary and this investment, the end of the road? Or do you plan on adding to more data and planning 10? More? What are your, long term and short term goals? How do we, start walking that path towards those, and, anybody who's seen any, any kind of thing on like, the power of leveraging real estate, understands.

Let's take a simple example, you bought a house in 2018, for $400,000. If you put 5%, down and moved into this house, you were in it for $20,000.you have a $20,000 investment. Most any place in the US, appreciated 30% over those last three years, and so you take the $400,000 house that's now worth 520, that's $120,000 in the net worth game for a $20,000 investment. It doesn't take rocket science to say, you six extra investment, and this isn't Dogecoin or some, random cryptocurrency, this is real estate, you can see it, feel it, touch it, it's real, and that's the type of thing that debt can help you accomplish. You don't have to buy the $400,000 asset of cash, you don't have to have 400,000, say, went up 30%. Yet, it went up 600% versus your $20,000 initial investment. You do the same thing with rental properties.

Brett:

It's powerful. One thing we always wish we would have done is bought more real estate during the crash, and it's having that liquidity, and that and that hopefully that finance ability, with a good credit score, and then having that experience and have done the work, doing the work, understand the local markets, understand the opportunities, and then and then executing on those on those plans, and so I like the way you put long term worth versus do I need an immediate cash flow? and versus retiring 45 years? It's identifying what season of the wealth plan that we're in, and then tailoring the debt to that business plan into that deal into that to that part of your life? Is that a fair summary so far?

Matt:

For sure. For sure.

Brett:

Now I want to talk about maybe secret number two. Once someone sits down with you, and you're crunching those numbers, you're encouraging them to do the work you're empowering them with the education what would be step number two to making sure that you're building wealth using debt. By the way, you can learn more about Matt Gouge at MTMG.com. If you want to go with them right now MTMG.com.

Matt:

That's actually a new domain, we wanted to save everyone the trouble of having to type out MattTheMortgageGuy.com, you can still go there and find us but now it's a lot easier MTMG.com. I did that for the people who have spent the money that you got to spend to get a four-digit domain but it'll all be worth it if I say if the next million people 22 seconds each. I might have lost my train of thought there. The next step?

Brett:

The next time someone sits down with you. And I've identified this property this is my goal here I'm at what's the next step to making sure that they're tailoring you're tailoring the debt and helping them tailor their debt to the right fit?

Matt:

On the stuff that I deal in daily In a day out, which is one to four-unit, residential real estate, you're going to have different options. 20%, down 25% Down, I mentioned 5% down earlier, because if it's a primary, that the home that you're living in, you're gonna be able to put less down. But if you're buying it as an investment, usually got to put 20 or 25% down, and that's, where we start to ask the questions is this the only one your buy-in? Is there more in the future, because you'll get better terms, but 25% down, but if you're trying to preserve capital and deploy it on the next investment, you might only put 20 so that you can save an extra 5% and get you that much closer to the next investment property.

It's those types of questions that are, steps three, four, and five, and what you're looking to do on those steps, is going to help me determine a plan for step two, once we've determined that plan, then it's, are we paying points? Are we not paying points? Are you going to hold on to this mortgage for the long term, some people are getting debt, and they know that they're going to flip a house or sell a house, and in that case, restructuring the loan, where we want a little less cost possible, baked into the loan, because you're selling versus somebody who says, I'm a buy and hold investor, I'm going to hold this thing forever. When I pass it down to my kids, then you can look at, maybe buying the rate down by a quarter makes sense, because you're going to save $52 a month for the next 30 years.

Brett:

I think what I'm gleaning from here and if you don't have an expert like Matt, who's helping you make wise decisions with your debt with refinancing with purchase, anywhere from one to four units, you've got to build your dream team, and that includes a Financial Advisor, Commercial Real Estate Broker, Rockstar Realtor. For us, it's partnering, finding strategic alliances with commercial real estate syndications. Of course, the tax team, we want to be part of that helping you to defer capital gains tax all those things together. You won’t like us Matt of these guys with Roman legions. They have the shields, and each of us have our shield and our specialty and a little carve out with our spear, and the client and or even myself, like I want to build around me, the dream team or the executive team to help me make great decisions. Because when we stay in our lane and our focus and our expertise and our passion, we can do that we can have the highest amount of impact versus not having that, and so any thoughts on building the Dream Team map?

Matt:

I think that you want to find somebody who does enough business, to where like them advising you. They're not swayed by like, I need a deal to close. I think that I and my team have always done a good job of that, and I've continued to lead that way and let my team know, we're going to advise people, what's best for them, and we're not going to worry about how many close deals we have this month and next month, we're trying to advise, at the high level, give people the best service possible, that's going to lead to future referrals, we're going to have an amazing 2025 and 2027. Versus like, how many deals can we shove into December 2021, and so you know, look for people like that, who have your best interest in mind, and the piece of advice that I would give, and I live by it, and I'm sure you live by it too.

Don't necessarily try to be an expert in everything. When I take tax advice, and I'm filing my taxes every year, I'm not reading the tax code. I'm not trying to understand this thing, exactly, I just pay the experts, and they're paid to be the expert to advise me, here's what you should do. Here's how you want to structure whatever it is with your tax plan. And financial advisor, the same thing, like it doesn't make sense for me, or for a nurse or for a tax advisor or police officer to take time out of their day to try to be like well versed in whatever mutual fund, they're investing in, just find those high-level advisors, pay them to do what they're best at, and to put it bluntly, stay the heck out of their way.

Brett:

Hire the who don't be the how and you're absolutely it is and even in tax right there those because we work with CPAs but we don't file tax returns. We specialize in the Deferred Sales Trust a niche of the tax code, IRC 453 to defer capital gains tax on highly appreciated assets. Like it's super niche. Even a lot of CPAs we're training the CPAs they don't know about this. It's like I liken it to like the general practitioner. Where if you go to the doctor and he gives you the annual flu shot and the general checkup, he's gonna, but if there's like, you tore your ACL, like I did playing basketball in college. He's not gonna just perform the surgery, and if he was gonna try to be like, wait, have you done this? He's like, no, never done this, and I don't know I want that all the Sacramento Kings done Here's right who did Ruthie Bolton's Nene did this whoever's knee and that's the one I Okay, this is my guy and he's done 1000s of these right and, and that's really the fight that really the point here, you want to make sure you're working with the specialist who's so so in he's done so many deals has been through the blood, sweat and tears, he's never been to the 10,000 hours all of those things to create expertise to make sure that it aligns with performance aligns with your goals, and they can deliver. Is that a fair summary, Matt?

Matt:

Perfect.

Brett:

We're going to shift the conversation a little bit to Capital Gains Tax Deferral, and Matt said, previous to getting on here, but I have a question I will save for the show. We can start with first What's the biggest frustration you've seen with your clients as it pertains to Capital Gains Tax Deferral, and or the 1031 Exchange? And then we can maybe go into that question. If that sounds good, Matt?