Becoming a Multifamily Entrepreneur with Gino Barbaro
Gino Barbaro is the Co-founder of Jake and Gino LLC. He is a father of six children and a restaurant owner for 25 years. He is also a certified professional coach. He invested in over 1,500 multifamily units and $100,000,000 Assets under management.
Gino Barbaro is a realtor and investor who has become an authority on multifamily investing. He is the host of the incredibly popular podcast, Jake and Gino Podcast, which he hosts with his business partner Jake Stenziano.
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Becoming a Multifamily Entrepreneur with Gino Barbaro
Brett:
I'm excited about our next guest. He is a multifamily expert and he has a passion for helping others build wealth when it comes to real estate investing. He is the Co-Founder of Jake and Gino LLC. He's going to tell us more of his story. Please welcome to the show with me, Gino Barbaro.
Gino:
Brett, this has been a roller coaster ride with me for the last couple of minutes. My camera doesn't work. We can't do the intro, right. But that's what it is about being an entrepreneur. And that's what l excel about. It's about committing and then figuring it out. Being an entrepreneur is tough. I spoke in front of a group of college students at Flagler College last week. I asked them to define what an entrepreneur is. They had some great definitions. I said the definition of an entrepreneur is someone who makes enough money to pay for their mistakes. That's what it comes down to. Right. You're out there. You're figuring it out every day. If you can stick in it long enough. It's an amazing life. I've got an amazing life right now. I'm working towards my sole purpose. I've got more than enough money that I'll ever need. I've got six wonderful kids. My wife is amazing. I'm living the entrepreneurial lifestyle but it's not what you think when you first start out. There are those days when the technology doesn't work when you can't read the script. When you're figuring out how does this deal make sense? Where am I going to get my next paycheck? Why am I going to work and working 14 hours a day, I'm working on my holidays, I'm working the weekends. This sucks. This is not what the entrepreneur life is, but if you can stick in long enough man, let me tell you it is fantastic.
Brett:
Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more and from behind the scenes, we try to make our production as clean and crisp as possible. But to be honest, this is exactly what your kind of trip fall and you go live and you go with what you have in a given day and so I appreciate you sharing that. Now for our listeners to get to know you for the first time, Gino, give us a little bit more about your story and your current focus.
Gino:
I'll keep this as brief as possible. Um, you know, amongst 50 years old, I've got six kids, we homeschool our kids. The most important facet of my life is my children. Got out of college a long time ago back in 1992. Couldn't get a job. I went to work in AIG for a year. I hated to sit in a cubicle. I'm sure a lot of your listeners out there like, wow, that is painful. It was painful for me. I decided to go on “the entrepreneurial route”. My father owned the restaurant, so I decided to open a restaurant with the family. I loved it for the first 10 or 15 years. It was awesome. We were making great money. It was just a different economy back then. Everyone says all the good old days they, it was a different way to make money. You could live a great middle-class lifestyle by having one business, one stream of revenue, and doing really well. Expenses were less. I mean, he didn't have all these luxuries we have today like cell phones. I'm paying 200 bucks a month for my cell phone, that's what my mom's mortgage was 30 years ago, you know what I'm saying. So if you put things in relativity, we had one car. Now everyone's got a car, right? I mean, it's just amazing the luxuries we have. So I loved it. Up until 2008. My father passes away in 2007. And I sit there and I say to myself, am I living his dream, right? Living my dream. I always wanted to create this amazing business, amazing lifestyle. The restaurant really didn't let me have that lifestyle. I had to work on the weekends, I had to work on Christmas, I had to work on New Year's, on Easter. As you get older, and you start having more kids, it's draining on you. I didn't want my kids to see me hate work, right? Because I want my kids to love to work hard. I was working hard, but I started dreading, coming home and not liking it. So like, what's the next step in my life? What am I going to do? I'm in the mid-30s, probably where a lot of listeners are. Now, I'm at that precipice. And I'm, to me, it's the really the pandemic of 2020, the great recession of 2008 on there, I'm like, what's my next step? I have done a couple of real estate deals, they didn't go well. I said I want to this multifamily thing. So what I did is I went out and got coaching. I went out and I invested in my education. I usually say I spent money on education, but to me, it was a big investment. It was just the next stepping stone to meeting my partner Jake. Back in 2009. Jake moves down to Knoxville in 2011. From that, it takes us 18 months to find that first deal. But we stuck in there. I mean, as I said, the entrepreneurial journey, you're not gonna find a deal. If you know, first two or three months you're looking I mean, if you do, you're amazing. You're a rock star. I wasn't a rock star to be a long time. But after that first deal, we found our second deal. And then after six months, we found our third deal and I guess the rest is history. But for me, I knew back in oh eight I wasn't on the journey that I should be on Now fortunately for me, I like I said I went and got coached found Jaken and I guess the rest is history.
Brett:
It's amazing. I love it so much. What's the biggest challenge or biggest secret to overcoming getting out of your own way hiring that coach, Gino?
Gino:
Well, I'm going to give everyone a tip that I've been reflecting on the last few weeks. It's the word is proximity. Tony Robbins, a lot of these high-level, you know, thought leaders talk about proximity. And for me, the more people that I surround myself that are higher level than me like Jake, like my partner, Mike, like I'm discussing a business deal with somebody else right now. His name is Rick, they are all high-level amazing people and they bring so much to the table. Being surrounded by them. Having that proximity being able to learn from them being able to be part of their mentorship is it's been amazing. So that's what happened for me with the accountability piece when I had with Jake and back in 2011. I may have quit after six months. But I was working with him. And he was working with me. And we were holding each other accountable. I would do more for Jake, right now than probably myself. I'm on this podcast because it's all about Jake and Gino and about holding our company accountable. You know, if I didn't have the team members, I'd be like, you know what, maybe I'll skip the podcast. But it's not like that when you have accountability. So for me, that proximity in that accountability is gonna really help you out early on. And also that word clarity. I mean, most of us on the show, I almost guarantee you we don't lack motivation, we lack clarity. Like I said back in ‘08, I was having that struggle. Well, what should I be doing? I don't want to be doing the restaurant. That wasn't the question. I should be asking, what do you want to do not what you don't want to do? And I knew in the back of my mind that I wanted to create an amazing company where people want to work like the Jake and Gino, you know, brand, I have an amazing group of, you know, employees, they all want to be there. We're all changing people's lives. And for me, people attract not what they want. But what they are. And back in ‘08, I wasn't the person that I needed to be to attract those high-level people at the restaurant. I always complained about the employees. I shouldn't be complaining about myself first, not having core values, not having a mission statement, not having a cadence of accountability, all these things that businesses need. I didn't know back then these are things that you learn as you continue on your entrepreneurial journey. And it's really funny, Brett, there are so many signs out there of successful companies. Look at Virgin Atlantic, look at Apple, they're all out there. They all leave clues and look at the companies that crap out. Look at the Enron of the world and all these other companies, WorldCom, What did they do wrong? It all comes from the top. That's why when people say CEOs are really vastly overpaid. I mean, it all depends on what you think vastly overpaid is. If you have a CEO that drives a ship, that creates that culture, that creates those core values and guides the company forward and grows the company and changes people's lives, that's amazing, valuable. It's very hard to find an individual like that, that has everyone beat into the same drum especially day after day, year after year.
Brett:
Amazing. What's the best secret to achieving clarity?
Gino:
Well, I don't think people want to hear this answer. But I went to life coaching school back in 2014, 2015. I want personal development. So for me, it was all about reading books. I've read hundreds and hundreds of books and I said I really want to work on personal development. I love Zig. I love Tony. I love Jim. I love Napoleon, but I really want to get down deep. I want to learn some skills. So I went to coaching school, I learned all about empowering questions, I learned all about energy levels, I learned all about setting goals. For me, all of a sudden, when you start figuring out why you want to do something, the clarity and how to do it, it becomes amazing and what I love about coaching when you're coaching students, you're coaching other people you're learning along the way, you're learning how to ask those great questions. You're learning how to pull stuff out of people, you're getting energized, you're on the road to helping people and what really happens in return, helps you and for me, that clarity and getting those questions and learning how to ask myself those tough questions really helped me along my journey.
Brett:
Next question, the cadence of accountability, what is it? How have you implemented it to grow your company.
Gino:
it sounds really sexy, to be honest with you, it just really isn't. What happens is when you start a company, it's just you and Jake, it's the island mentality, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do that, right. We can go through the seven levels of starting a successful business. But when you first start out, as an entrepreneur, you need to do everything. You're bootstrapping every single thing. So you buy your first deal, you're doing the QuickBooks, you buy your second deal, you get 60 units, you're doing QuickBooks, you're doing marketing, you're changing toilets, your septic fields blow out, you're out there cleaning the septic fields. But when you have 200 units, all of a sudden, that mind shift has to change, you need to shed that old person need to shed, that old identity, and start creating systems. If you don't, then you're in the wrong business. You're not going to grow a business, you're going to be that employee/self-employed as Robert Kiyosaki talks about, and Jake and I had that inflection and we're both, Jake was a W two employee, and I was a small business owner. We didn't have these skills. These are skills that you need to learn that you need to invest in your education. We went out, we got scaling up coaches, for about a year and a half to figure out what our core values were.
This cadence accountability came, came through really, really powerfully for us. Basically, I just want everyone to write this down the cadence of accountability is touchpoints you have within your organization. The first one that we have is we have a weekly huddle with all of our different entities, we have four or five different entities. Now we have a mortgage company, we have an education company, we have a syndication company, and we have property management. So we call it the Ram Power Wheel. They're all different, they're all going in different directions, is about 70 employees within the whole organization. But on a weekly, what we call the weekly huddle, we want to have a discussion, about 45 minutes long of what's going on, our wins for the week, or losses for the week, we have metrics because if you can't measure it, you can't manage it. So we have KPIs for each organization, each entity and they work in such a nice synergistic way. Because let's say you want to get an education with Jake and Gino, great, you may also want to invest with us. Go on to the capital company, hey, you know what you may wanna invest with us. Also, as far as that goes, we have a syndication company. So the first one is that weekly huddle. The next one we have is we have a daily huddle internally 8:45 every day, Tuesday through Friday, with Jake and Gino, so all of us get on 8:45 for 15-20 minutes, the same thing wins, losses from the day before, what are our daily targets today and any stuck points, then we have something called our quarterly priorities every quarter. The Friday before the quarter ends, we set our priorities for the next quarter. Because Jake and Gino like the shotgun and we'd like to do 15-16 priorities and we can do it, but our team members can't do it.
So really lay out your priorities. Anything that takes longer than eight hours is a priority. building a website, writing a book, you know, implementing a system that may take more than eight hours that goes in the priority sheet. Then what you want to do a task is anything less than eight hours. So when you're ripping down goals, you're setting the priorities, and then from that you backdate it and you felt what your tasks are to achieve that. Those are the quarterly priorities, then we have an FOMC, a family of companies meetings once a month. And for us that's getting all the companies together, we do a webinar for the entire company. And you know, at 8:30 in the morning on Wednesday, we'll get on once a month and discuss the achievements that each company has had and bringing them to the forefront. Because the property management company may not know what the mortgage company is doing. So letting them all know is a great way to do it. And we have nothing we call level 10 meetings, we've got this attraction or level 10 meetings or our weekly meetings with our leaders. So I have a weekly level 10 meeting with the sales staff, I have a weekly level 10 meeting with our operations manager, then I have another one with my brother who's a student success specialist. Those are touchpoints. And what we do is we get we have a level 10 sheet, yearly goals, quarterly priorities, weekly to do. And then we have a parking lot we have any kind of idea. So we're really going off of that dock and holding each one of us accountable. When it's done. We strike it off. It's not sexy like I said, but this is what you need when you start growing in your organization and what I want everyone to think about, this doesn't have to happen tomorrow. You guys can start picking these little things out and start implementing them slowly. Maybe you do a weekly huddle, right. And if you're in real estate, property management, you're doing third-party property management, that weekly huddle is a must every week you need to get out of the property management company at least once a week to find out what's going on being proactive and not reactive. And the other thing is if you have partners, you should have a daily huddle every day 15, it's 10 or 15 minutes and it's great. If you hate working with your partner then you got the wrong partner. I love being on my, you know, my calls with Jake in the morning and stuff. That's what we live for, it should be scheduled just because don't say, I'm gonna call you, make sure you have a schedule every day to get on with your team daily because so you'll know what's going on and if anything happens you want to be proactive you don't want to be reactive being proactive in opening up those lines communication is what makes our organization great.
Brett:
Amazing. We're talking about Gino Barbaro here becoming a multifamily entrepreneur. You can find more about Gino Barbar at jakeandgino.com. You know, I think it's sexy Gino? You know, I think 30 sexy. You know, like you, my wife and I, we've got five kids. So one less than you and we homeschool and to the podcast to business, commercial real estate broker, capital gains tax solutions like we're doing things and I think clarity is sexy. I think having a system sexy and I implemented a daily huddle with my team in about 30 minutes. I like I got to start with the quarterly ones get because we kind of do this but we're not scheduling them. We do them, we don't do them on a systematic basis and things don't get scheduled, get forgotten, or are not prepared for right. And so I love this sequence of the basic cadence of accountability, different touchpoints. You guys should rewind that and watch that again. Then just like Gino said, I think I'm gathering, let's just take one of them. Like what's the next one you can do if you're not doing a weekly huddle? Do a weekly one. If you're only doing a weekly one, maybe do a daily one. If you're not doing a quarterly one, right, maybe add a quarterly one, just add one at a time in implementing this into your system and to your schedule. Is that a fair summary?
Gino:
Yep. And what I would say is Rome wasn't built in a day. There's a business, every quarter. We're in March right now, maybe the end of March on a Friday, pick three or four hours to set up the next quarter’s priorities. But document everything you need to hold each team member accountable. And if there's a task to build a priority to build a website, and Brett's gonna build a website, well, Brett every Monday on the huddle, Brett, what have you done, to move the objective forward, move that priority forward every week. And it's great, because now this time, it's a time of the quarter, we've got a lot of green because a lot of those priorities already been knocked out. We've already sent a questionnaire out for the next quarter. So my question is already filled out, I already know, next quarter, I've got a youth academy that I need to start working on, I've got a shoot about 10 videos on flipping apartments, I know that I'm actually launching a book next quarter, I need to work on that. So I already know my priorities started for next quarter. And if something pops up, like last year, in a pandemic, you need to be flexible with these nothing's written in stone. Last year in March, the pandemic hits, we had our priorities set, all of a sudden, you know, residents can't go into the office. So all of a sudden video, virtual leasing just popped up, that became the priority, everything got shipped off to the next quarter or to the parking lot. And we'd focus on that virtual leasing. So this is not stuff that has to be set in stone. But if you have a guide, you can work towards that guy, because if you plan it, it will get done. But if you don't, it's not going to get done.
Brett:
Absolutely. By the way. I just recently watched a 15-minute time management video on YouTube and just looked it up. I put on my Google Calendar, you know, colors of things that I'd like to have my perfect day look like, right? For example, in the morning, working out reading and praying, meditating, you know, looking at my goals, doing that, right? That's generally speaking, I want to do that Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursdays, and then also Saturdays and Sundays, you know, Saturdays, maybe a Sunday, right? Then other times, like getting a time to like a 20-minute meditation, nap in the middle of the day, if I can't now, some days, I can't because it is so crazy. But I know if I'm working on something, and I await my schedule says to maybe try to do this. Now let's go do that because I'm just gonna pause and I'm rejuvenated. My mind's cleared. Right? I feel refreshed. Again, it's its placeholders not that you have to do it. And this is what took the pressure off me. It's not like it's a, you have to block this time for all of this, although you should block things for certain things, right? So see for family time, and scheduling. But that helped give me in this middle space of I'll still keep going. But then I start to magically it seemed like the schedule starts to just go to where those things should be. So I don't know how to articulate this correctly, per se. But all I can say is start to implement in time block as much as you can. And then even if it's just the first few months of just, this is what I like it to look like, make it a repeat on your Google calendar or whatever calendars and you're using, and then start to try to plan your day around that. Is that a fair summary, Gino, do you think?
Gino:
Yes, and I would also add another thing to it. There's something that's called the Learning Zone and the Performance Zone. I love this because I think Carol Dweck, wrote the book Mindset, The New Psychology of Success. This was one of our students back in 2006. He's coming out with his book and he's done a great TED talk about it. But I want everyone as an entrepreneur, we need to be in both zones. But most entrepreneurs are only in the performance zone, really performing out there trying to crush your trading. To get good, we need to pull back and spend a few hours a week Brett on the learning zone, big learning our craft, whether it's public speaking, whether it's underwriting deals, whether it's negotiating deals, whether whatever you need to be learning, you need to be really, what's the word, intentional on your learning, and you need to have that learning zone time built out a few hours a week. Then obviously, we get paid in the performance zone. But most of us spend all that time on performance zone, and we think we're getting better and getting better and practicing. But you need intentional practice, you need to be in the zone of learning, block out all those distractions and focus on that learning zone. That's why the quarterly priorities, those three or four hours on a Friday, before the next quarter, you're with your team, no distractions, you're actually able to focus on what the priorities are, and not even what they are. But why do you want to do these priorities? How is that going to move the company forward? Just don't do something to make it a priority. But why is it a priority so being in that learning zone will help you out?
Brett:
Beautiful what's the number one thing for you right now that you're trying to learn?
Gino:
To be a better public speaker. Jake and Gino, we've created Toastmasters in the organization for the community. It's been amazing, a lot less filler words, slowing down being more intentional thinking about it, I can't change my authenticity. I'm a New Yorker, I'm Italian, I speak a mile a minute, sometimes I can't slow down, I get excited. That's something where you know, that's just me, but I can't make that excuse, I need to actually work on that and to be intentional about it. If we have a Toastmasters every week, for an hour, I'm working on that for an hour and a half. It's a great team builder, it just makes you work on that craft that makes you think about it. And what it does also is you can start comparing yourself to others. Well, I like the way that person did that or I like his style or her style, or how they created the story, or how they use inflection in their voice or whatever it may be. That's something that I'm working on it. And I think the other thing also is just to become a better teacher. When you start teaching. People are very, very intelligent, Oh, Jesus said about you know, best, you know, we're getting the fishers of men, you have to really rip it down and make people understand these high, you know, difficult concepts like a cap rate, let's say or cash on cash return, making people understand that not losing them having that content that where they can consume it not like after five or six minutes. It's like, this is way over my head. Because you know how a lot of people speak, we all want to sound like experts. Sometimes that's not the case. You just want to be able to present your ideas to people and have them understand those ideas. Brett, did I lose you there?
Brett:
All right, I'm back. Sorry about that, a little delay there. That being said, this was the idea that I had on that thought is it was called the Success or the Fulfillment Formula. Let me know what you think about this. Do you know the facility foreman goes like this? It's that one strength that you've been given or that one key strength, rather than a core gift. Maybe you're given times maximizing the potential of that gift times the impact you have for others and then people you're impacting, divided by trusting, and for me, it's God or trusting that what you're doing is for a higher purpose, that equals feel fulfillment, right? But we're not using that gift or if we've had that gift and we're not maximizing the potential so in your scenario You're gonna hate public speaking, it's communicating, right? So you have that gift, you have that. But if you're not maximizing the potential, there's gonna be a part of that formula, which is not as you know, it's not as fulfilling. If you're maximizing potential, but you're not impacting others, guess what, the fulfillment’s not really there. If you're doing all three of those things, and you're trusting, it's for a higher purpose. That's when fulfillment comes rushing in. Any thoughts on that?
Gino:
It's really working on your sole purpose, don't you think? I mean, for me, I don't even think it was a strength. It's just something that I was pushed into, almost like sales. I always thought sales were terrible. That wasn't a “strength”. I think we all have strengths, we can be good at anything we want to be good at. That's the thing I think we're brought up into saying, this person is this kind of person, this guy's that kind of person. No, that's not how it is in life, you really want to gravitate to what you like, I never liked the public speak, I never enjoyed it. But then I saw the effect that I had on people, I saw the effect that I had of how being able to grow an organization and being an entrepreneur, getting on stage. And sharing those thoughts. And persuading people is a really important part of being an entrepreneur. So whether I don't have the strength, or I do or I don't, I need to work on it. And working on that strength and I wrote it down, maximizing my potential, maximize my potential is constantly working on and constantly getting better. Then having the impact by having people close on deals by having students leave they are who then divided by trusting in God, I mean, that's core to us. I mean, he's given me an amazing life. He's given me all the tools I mean, I was born with two amazing parents, I got an amazing wife. If I fail in life, then I have felt bad for a lot of other people because I have a lot of other advantages but that doesn't mean I'm gonna be successful just because I have those advantages. I need to work on those and those to the strength of maximizing potential are really important. So I love that formula.
Brett:
Beautiful and I can't say it's like my form. I think I got it from someone else or kind of put a couple together but yes, and I love the sole purpose right getting out of the way yourself right? Sometimes you go like... Well, I don't really like that or it's not my personality or it's this well, it's like we’ll back up let's get out of the way if you can make an impact for others and guess what you take the action and step through that have the courage to go through that, by the way, the first time I got on YouTube, Gino, I was scared out of my mind. I didn't want to be on YouTube. I don't want to be on video. I'm looking at this camera and the lighting is bad and I'm in my house and I'm like this is gonna be bad and I posted it I'm like, I just got to post, I got to just press through. It's not gonna be perfect, I probably did it 30 times, the first video so bad. I've since gone back and deleted those right or unlisted right now. Fast forward, it's been about a year, I get a chance to meet folks like Gino, right? I get folks on my podcast because I went through that comfort zone. So that being said, we've talked about life and a bunch of other stuff but Gino actually has a cool business and it's about helping you become a multifamily entrepreneur by investing. So we're running out of time though. So Gino? Do you want to just tell them where they can find you and and and then tell them briefly about what you guys offer?
Gino:
Sure. I mean, everyone just go to jakeandgino.com. We've got four weekly podcasts. We've got the multifamily zone with my wife and breaded talked about someone who's scared about talking on camera. It's my wife. She was petrified. I got her on and it's like one of those accountability things. I got her on right next to me, we do a bi-weekly podcast on the multifamily zone. It's all about spousal communication. It's about growing a family. It's about how amazing business and family are so similar. They have that cadence of accountability. You have to have those core values in your business and your family. So I love doing that show with her. We have a show called the Movers and Shakers. That's our students closing deals. We are the Flagship Wheelbarrow Profits show. I love that show every week with Jake and then we have a Rain CRE Show and then, go on jakeandgino.com, we have tons of blogs, tons of articles, tons of, you know, resources there. What we did is we just launched a book, I'm gonna hold it up everybody, it's Creative Cash, one of our coaches just wrote the book. We just published it for him about a month ago. Hit Amazon number one bestseller This is an amazing book because right now, seller financing is going to be a buzzword in the next 12 to 18 months because it's hard to get that financing, I mean, there's a lot of deals out there and I think seller financing master lease options are great so if anybody wants a copy, just email me gino@jakeandgino.com. Go online, buy a copy on Kindle, leave a review and I will send you a hard copy in the mail.
Brett:
Amazing. Now, we're going to tie in for those who are listening for Capital GainsTax Solutions for your creative ways to do things. By the way seller carrybacks, our creative way to help the seller defer the capital gains tax and help you make a deal and that's the number one reason why they want to do that. Now we have a deferred sales trust we like to say it's an installment sale or sell a curio back on steroids right which gets even more stupid get it to but I'm curious. Gino, what's the biggest frustration that you've seen? When it comes to capital gains tax deferral options and can be pretty broad 1031 related that could be syndication related or it could be you know, not being able to sell cryptocurrency and then defer tax and move it into real estate like what's the biggest frustration that you see when it comes to capital gains tax deferral?
Gino:
I think the capital gains, a 1031 is tough, because right now, especially in this market, because you've got a great property, you're selling it, but then on the other end, you need to buy a property and it's like, am I sell my property at a profit to buy this property that's overpaid? That's gonna damage, that I'm gonna overpay because I'm one of them for my taxes. So if you can find a solution, and you've got a property in mind, and you've got one and be able to lock it up, we haven't been able to do that. So that is probably our biggest frustration and trying to pull through 1031 with all of the timing requirements needed 45 days to identify six months to build a close. That is probably one of our biggest frustrations right now in the market.
Brett:
Yeah, thanks for sharing. We call it the shotgun wedding. Right? You get married 180. And sometimes shotgun weddings don't turn out great. And then you have low inventory. Low cap rates. And you have very low financing. That's pushing up real estate values. You want to be careful not to overpay. That's why we offered the deferred sales trust. I actually just saved a failed 1031 exchange out of Georgia, the guy at $7.6 million deal, 126 units. This guy's been in for 30 years, you know, and he's looking around, he's going oh my gosh, but COVID-19 hit and he's like, I don't want to touch anything. He's a baby boomer, right. He kind of wants to be a little more passive. Although he wants to be active when the deals go come back. So he's the deferred sales trust for the first time, paid off all this debt, park the cash, and put it into a couple of different syndications passively but his plan is to actually come back and buy real estate with the trust at a future date all tax-deferred, by the way, when the market drops he's in California that might take years but it's actually very powerful you got a capitalgainstaxsolutions.com to learn more about that and or if your listener and your syndicator or operator or commercial broker, luxury brokering go to experttaxsecrets.com. That being said, we are out of time, everybody, thank you so much for the bugs for this show and listening pushing through and we appreciate you and look forward to doing another show real soon. Bye now.
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