Barry:

Good question, and by the way, I love the strategy you just mentioned, I'm all for that, you can borrow up to 95% of your total cash value in any year, even in the very first year when you start the policy. A few of the differences are obvious in the real estate deal. We don't know exactly what the future holds. We can make the projections, but there's no real guarantee. But I love real estate, tangible assets. If you do it right, you're gonna be okay. With the Infinite banking policy, you are getting a guarantee. If you can borrow money at less than 5%. I usually recommend that however, here's what most real estate investors do, Brett, they'll use cash, like we're saying here for the down payment. When you use cash, there is a lost opportunity cost. Sure you own the real estate.

But what if you pull the cash out of another investment savings account isn't really a very fair example, because savings accounts are paying 0%, basically. But when you take cash elsewhere, you're no longer earning any return off of that money. That last opportunity cost can be a cost. In a life insurance policy when you take a policy loan because you're still earning interest in dividends on your total cash value. There is no lost opportunity cost. I would run a side-by-side comparison and first say hey if you can borrow money at three and a half percent, you should probably do that. But knowing that your effective return or cost for the loan is zero, and you’re still coming out ahead because of the compounding chances are even at a four or 3% Loan Rate sometimes paying 5% simple interest is better than pain, three or three and a half or four on an amortization schedule.

Brett:

I think it's really interesting. I think it'd be good to see those numbers side by side by side and, and run those and it would be also great to speak with multifamily syndicators that are doing this on a big scale. I'd love to see those numbers like on a 100 unit or three-unit apartment complex, even bigger numbers. That would be really helpful. The excellent so now I want to shift a little bit there, and I think any other last thoughts on the infinite wealth baking strategy that we haven't touched on yet, I want to make sure we touched on.

Barry:

Maybe we'll go into the weeds just a little bit here furthermost investors buying real estate, they are amortizing when you look at the cost to amortize and the majority of your payment is going to pay interest, that really over time can hurt you. My point is by using a policy loan, and it's simple interest, there's a big deal there, and looking at the numbers side by side is very compelling and convincing to say, it doesn't make sense to take a policy loan for down payments. Maybe we don't amortize the whole thing. Maybe we amortize only 50 60% of the loan and use the policy loan for more of a down payment with simple interest. I find in that scenario, you're coming out ahead or further than you would otherwise.

Brett:

I'd love to see those numbers, that'd be great to really dissect that. Moving to the tax deferral part of it say I want to push back a little bit on that. I'm curious what you would think about this. We help people who are selling highly appreciated cryptocurrency businesses, primary homes, I'll give you the cryptocurrency deal we just did, and I’m wondering what you would do on this one. They bought it for $100,000 and Barry, it's worth 13 million, this is Ethereum, and they sold the first kind of tranche of it for 5 million, and so their gain is really big, and it's their tax was somewhere around 30%, just give or take, and they're looking at about a million and a half dollar liability on that, and so they could not only sell and move it into what we use is called a Deferred Sales Trust. But they can also defer the income tax on that, too. They don't need to take the cash flow right away.

They can lower their income tax bracket, which otherwise would have been through the roof, and then what they can do is they could go and they can use a portion of that to invest into real estate, all tax-deferred, and then get all of the other benefits, I was talking about depreciation and all those other things. Then when we put it to is most of our clients like to pay the tax the second data never meaning that they're never going to touch the principal, that 5 million, and they're gonna use it to build more and more wealth, and the rule of 72, if you're in 7%, over 10 years, that five will turn into 10, and that’s typically what we're doing. Now, the interest payments will pay ordinary income tax for any depreciation they don't have. But in the end, the premise of, well, taxes are going to be higher in the future, and by the way, we do get that sometimes people go well, Biden's might be doubling from 20 to 40, and we say yeah, and you might be paying 30 to 50 now, and maybe 50 to 70 years later, but either way, I wouldn't want to pay 30 to 50 now, or 50 to 70 later. I'm just curious about your thoughts on that. What am I missing here? Just pay the tax now? Don't defer?

Barry:

I like the DST, I think what you guys are doing is fantastic. What I would say is that initial 100,000, that that person invested to earn 13,000,001, it's remarkable, but it would have been great if he would have had the $100,000 in the infinite banking policy to then go purchase the crypto, that he would still be getting growth on another 100,000. Now you say well, there's a $12.9 million effective game potentially, the DST is fantastic. We wouldn't be able to take that money directly and put it into the infinite banking policy because they would have to pay tax on it now and then whatever goes into the policy is then growing tax-free. My point on the tax deferral is when it comes to IRAs 401K's any qualified plan that we see traditionally put out there by CPAs or Wall Street, that they're not explaining the full story to the person investing in that particular vehicle that they're not recognizing, man, when I take this money out, it's 100% taxable, and I have to take it out. There's got to come to a point where I've got to take that money out and if I die with those investments, and I haven't taken the money out, my kids have to pay the tax. Tax deferral isn't all glorious as CPAs or tax accountants make it seem. I want to make sure that people have a portion of their portfolio tax-free, not 100% tax-deferred.

Brett:

I'm so glad you clarify that because I couldn't agree with you more. That’s part of why I stopped doing my wife and I stopped doing 401 K's stopped doing IRAs. Because we said at a certain point they're going to force us to get out of it to take the income and then be we have to wait to a certain age we're going to get penalized. I said why don't we just buy real estate and invest in businesses and get the cash flow now because we can potentially retire earlier five or 10 years earlier and spend more time with the family, the kids, and everything else and travel to the things we Want to do versus being locked into this thing, and so, especially if it was nice, flexible now there are self-directed IRAs, different things you can do. But there are also some rules on that with real estate and different things that make it more complex. I completely stopped This is about 10 years ago, I'm not going that anymore. It's 100% going into real estate. But if I'm hearing you correctly, you're saying, had that had the client have that $100,000, let's say in the life and infinite baking life insurance policy, and then invested it or borrowed against? I'm not sure how you would do that, and by the crypto, maybe walk me through that? Are you saying that it would be tax-free for the 13 million? Or can you walk me through that? What am I missing something there Barry?

Barry:

I wish that were tax-free. Any outside investments that you do other than the infinite banking, you still have to go through the normal tax implication, got it, but that $100,000 will continue to grow tax-free. Let's look mid to long term, 1020 years from now that 100 grand has grown, there are gains on the 100 grand, but when he took the policy loan, the growth on the 100,000 wasn't affected. Here's an example. I talked with clients today, they're in their 60s, andthey said after we talk, well, I wish we would have known about this 2030 years ago. The compounding effect on these dollars inside the plan is obviously exponential, the longer the timeframe.no, there is no tax benefit as far as the extra growth. crypto. But how do you take it from the policy itself, and then continue to maybe buy crypto throughout his life or real estate throughout his life? He's still growing money in a tax-free bucket.

Brett:

Just to clarify, he's borrowed against 100,000 to go by the stuff that he said 95,000.in this scenario, he put 100 into Ethereum. But instead, he would have put, let's say, and I don't even know what the fees would be if you started $100,000. We're assuming it's 95,000 of that after fees, and then 95% of the 95,000 could go into it could be borrowed against to go buy the crypto, is that right?

Barry:

That's correct.

Brett:

That we'd have to do that math to say we're losing about 10% purchasing power. Is that fair?

Barry:

In the first year.

Brett:

In the first year.

Barry:

But what happens is that cash value grows over time. There's more money in cash than you've paid into premiums.

Brett:

Got it and what point do you typically see that past that 10%?

Barry:

It depends on the age of the client and the health, we can see a break-even point in you were as soon as the third year, up to about the seventh year.

Brett:

Third to seventh. Excellent. Is this good? This is cool. I appreciate you going and going into that very so. This leads me to my next question, which you've touched on a little bit, but I'm wondering what your biggest frustration is when it comes to capital gains tax deferral and the 1031 Exchange? You kind of talked about the for a little bit, but anything it can be and we also more love the deal stories. It could be yourself. It could be a client, it could be a friend or family member? Like is it a deal story where you're like, Brett, this was so frustrating? Do we wish you could have done this or that or, but is there anything that comes to mind there, Barry?

Barry:

Several I mean, I've had clients in my real estate background for the last 16 years is what I see most often. Are people getting frustrated because they can't identify a property to go do a 10 3031 exchange with? So what do they do, they have anxiety, and they go make bad decisions, andthey get into a property that they maybe shouldn't have got in or wouldn't have got in under different circumstances because they want to avoid the tax. One is they're making a bad decision. What I often will tell them is if you're earning four or 5%, tax-free in the infinite banking policy, there's less anxiety, but from a 1031 perspective, that's what I see over and over again, are people having the fear of, I've got to get this money to work, I've got to find another property, and if I don't do it in the right amount of time, I'm going to end up paying the tax which I don't want to deal with.

Brett:

Because of the shotgun wedding Barry. If you received someone when your friends get engaged quickly and get married quickly. That's oftentimes especially when you have a marketplace like this where the prices are so so high-interest rates are so low, it's driving them up, and there's a lot of money chasing fewer and fewer deals, especially value add force appreciation deals, and people, have to identify in 45 days get married in 180, and you're right. They're letting the tax tail wag the investment dog and in fact, in 2008 this is where people got hurt. They had too much debt. Too much liability, not enough liquidity, andthey had overpaid and they knew they were doing it and oh 40, 50, 60, 70 until the music stopped. But some of them lost half some and lost everything we're going, what is it worth? It just did refer to that tax. Obviously, the answer would have been no, you would have just paid the tax, he paid off your debt, and just waited for the market to shift into a deal that made sense. into the Deferred Sales Trust.

This is why we love it the best of both worlds, it's like the Netflix to the old blockbuster way of doing things you can sell high defer the tax, pay off your debt, diversify, get liquidity, by the way, you can fund infinite banking life insurance policies with the income off of it, then you can, there's also some creative other ways to potentially fund some insurance policies, which is really incredible. You can do both combined, which is powerful, and then but, but then you can buy real estate whenever you want. In fact, we have a client who just did a deal, they sold a $2.6 million business, and they deferred 600,000 of tax, and they're building 70 multifamily units, all tax-deferred and Tennessee, and this is ground-up development, which again, 1030 wants equal or greater value, it has to be like-kind has to be the short period of time, it wouldn't have been possible because he selling a business B it's taking him a year and a half or so to build the units, and so the flexibility and like like I like to he put anxiety, like it just kind of goes away, we have to say like the Safe Harbor, why don't you get a little bit of insurance, get a little bit of the stock market get a little bit of hard money lending a little bit of real estate, and let’s just take the stress way down versus selling one asset for 10 units and moving for 20 units, and now you just you're all not diversified. Any thoughts on that, Barry?

Barry:

You bring up a valid point. I like diversification. What I don't like is how it's sold in the traditional financial world, Wall Street financial advisors, tell you to diversify. But everything's still in the market. It makes no sense. True diversification, is having different asset classes. We're talking about real estate, talking about business talking about cash value, infinite banking, we're talking about maybe some market investments. That's true diversification, different asset classes, and in doing that, I believe it brings more peace of mind to a person. There are more or less sleepless nights, there is more flexibility. We've used that word I think a few times here, and ultimately, when they get to the end, I talked to clients all the time about you want multiple streams of income in retirement, not just one. Unfortunately, most people today are banking on a single 401k for income and Social Security. Let's not do it like that. What the wealthy do in this country, real estate, their own business, some market-based investments, maybe stocks and high cash value, whole life insurance, tax-free.

Brett:

Thanks for sharing that, by the way. Look, you can learn more about Barry at FocusWealthGroup.com it's Barry Brooksby at focuswealthgroup.com and you can learn more about the Deferred Sales Trust and how to eliminate the need and all the anxiety and stress of selling cryptocurrency businesses real estate, we can save a failed 1031 Exchange. We've done about seven of these in the past 40 days. We'll close another seven in the next 40 days, and we’re doing businesses crypto, primary residences, luxury homes, investment real estate, you can go to capital gains tax solutions calm its CapitalGainsTaxSolutions.com to learn more about that. All that being said, we're running out of time. Barry, are you ready for the lightning round? 

Barry:

Let's do it.

Brett:

All right, knowing what you know now, Barry, if you could go back to your 25-year-old self. What's the one Golden Nugget you'd make sure to tell yourself to do?

Barry:

I wish I would have started saving money earlier. You don't see that when you're 25 but I really would have started chunking a lot more money away, either in real estate or these tax-free infinite banking plans.

Brett:

Second question, what's the number one book you've recommended or give it the most in the past year?

Barry:

Robert Kiyosaki Rich Dad, Poor Dad.

Brett:

By the way, once you plug your book real quick to Barry, what's the book you have on?

Barry:

Some of my planning is Long-Term Care. Long-term care obviously can be very expensive. 10 1215 $20,000 a month for the care. There are tax-free strategies to take qualified money, turn it into tax-free money for long-term care. I wrote the book because those people out there are 65 or older. Three out of four will need long term care and guess what the costs are on Going up every year, and rather than depleting your own assets or your real estate portfolio or your brokerage account, you can actually have tax free money, paying for your long term care 2, 3, 4,10 times the amount that it actually cost you to have.

Brett

What are you most curious about right now?

Barry:

For me as a musician, I'm always looking at music guitars. I'm curious about the future of my own music, frankly. But I'm also curious about what our world has come in regards to America. I think this is the greatest country on the planet. But there are some decisions being made that you know, worry me some, but I am an optimist. I believe in abundance thinking. But I am curious to see what the future holds which is another reason why we should all be planning and preparing for an unknown future.

Brett:

Barry, for our listeners who want to get in touch with you what's the best place for them to find you?

Barry:

FocusWealthGroup.com you can also email me barry@focuswwealthgroup.com and I would encourage people to look at their own numbers if this is intriguing to you. Let's put a plan together with no obligation but look at your own numbers. It really gets powerful when you begin to see how this strategy can benefit you, your family and frankly, allow you to leave a larger legacy behind as well.

Brett:

Barry, It's been more than a pleasure I want to encourage you to keep using the gifts of being an amazing musician creating solutions and strategies and music for people right to enjoy and have more prosperity more wealth and also want to cause you to keep helping people and being passionate about helping them and I thank you for being on the show and also want to thank our listeners for listening to the episode of the Capital Gains Tax Solutions Podcast. As always, we believe most high net worth individuals and those who haven't they struggled clarifying their Capital Gains Tax Deferral Options not having a clear plan is the enemy using a proven tax deferral sheet especially the Deferred Sales Trust or getting with Barry Brooksby to get some infinite banking perhaps life insurance going to get some really cool stuff that we just all talked about? If you know a friend or family member who is selling and highly appreciated real estate business cryptocurrency Would you do me a favor? Would you share this with them? This episode, or just our website or anything so that they doesn’t get hammered with tax when they sell, and then and then we get calls every day? I just sold can I do something? It's too late. Unless it's in a 1031 that we can save a failed 1031 so again, you can go to capitalgainstaxsolutions.com to learn more about that. Remember also streaming expertcresecrets.com and again, M&A Advisor, Business Broker, Luxury Real Estate Agent, Commercial Real Estate Broker we love to see love for you to check out what we're doing to grow that business and help more people as well. Thanks so much, everybody. Hope to talk to you real soon.