Creating a Healthy Relationship with Money with Bob Wheeler

December 15 , 2022

Expert CRE Secrets Podcast

Bob Wheeler, Financial Expert & Motivator, Book Author, is the founder of The Money Nerve. Bob helps listeners conquer their money shame and avoid making poor financial decisions by teaching how emotions can dictate our choices. As a man of true integrity with infectious energy, Bob’s crusade for personal growth has cross-pollinated with his accounting practice to create a new approach to personal finances.

His passion is to help others gain insights into how their emotions trigger financial decisions. Combining finances with behaviours, Bob explores his personal concept of creating a healthy relationship with money in his recent book, The Money Nerve.

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Creating a Healthy Relationship with Money with Bob Wheeler

Brett:

I'm excited about our next guest. He is a CPA by trade and he explores and helps his clients explore the emotions surrounding money management. He has an amazing book called The Money Nerve: Navigating The Emotions Of Money. His passion is to help you right now gain insight into why your emotions trigger financial decisions, and so much more. He's out of West Hollywood, California, he's on the frontlines of helping people with money and tax please welcome the show me, Bob Wheeler. Bob, how are you doing?

Bob:

Brett, great to be here. Good to see you.

Brett:

I'm excited to have you on the show. For our listeners getting to know you for the first time, would you give us a little bit more about your story and your current focus?

Bob:

I am a CPA by trade. I originally was going to be a lawyer. That was my lifelong goal. Then I got to college, met a few lawyers and thought, yeah, I think maybe not jumped into accounting. It was something that came easy. Becoming a CPA started doing that I realized I was not doing the best with my own finances, even though I could tell other people what to do. a lot of my friends were in the creative arts. They were seemingly having problems with money. A lot of my clients, my entrepreneurs, were doing the exact opposite of what seemed like solid financial advice. It really got me curious about what was going on behind the scenes.so I got into exploring the emotions, looking at my own history, looking at my client’s history and a lot of my creative friend’s financial history and wrote a book and decided that I wanted to help people realize that there is no shame in not having the financial download that it's never too late to learn and that you're not alone because there's a lot of people out there with lots of money that also have emotional issues around money.

Brett:

Bob, sounds absolutely fascinating and really unique to me. I can't say I know of anyone who's really focused on this space. I'm looking forward to this interview of creating healthy relationships with money if people want to get with you right now, by the way, you can get with Bob Wheeler right now by going to TheMoneyNerve.com, it's TheMoneyNerve.com. But Bob, before we go into all of the things, creating a healthy relationship with money, I'm curious. I believe we've all been given certain gifts in this life. These gifts have been given to us to be a blessing and help to others. Some people come strength some people call them superpowers. When should you go back? Perhaps, prior to becoming a CPA, Bob grew up. What are the one or two strengths you believe you were given? How does that help how you help him bless people today.

Bob:

the two things I would say would be one, a sense of humour. That helps me to be able to get people's defences down to actually hear what I want to help them with. The other thing I have is, I think the ability to be willing to listen and create a safe space so that people can tell me what's actually going on.

Brett:

Nailed it sounds like you've really thought about that, which is fantastic. I'm trying to move that maneuver into the interview today. Sense of humour, helping people to get their defences down and willing to listen and create a safe place. That being said, Bob, what's the number one secret to creating a healthy relationship with our money?

Bob:

I think the number one secret is being willing to do the work, being willing to look at our choices and learn from them. Many people want to stay unconscious and just go with the flow. If we're willing to stop and take a look at it and say why didn't that work? What's not working? What am I willing to do to get there? I think more people would have success and a healthy relationship with the money that they're seeking.

Brett:

Let's break that down. Bob, I'm showing up. I'm an entrepreneur. I've made multi-million dollars in cryptocurrency and these huge run-ups, or own a business and have operated for a long time. Perhaps I'm not as organized in my budget, or perhaps I'm not as organized in the tax flow implications of what's going to happen when I sell. Walk us through how you would help. Help us, help me walk through that.

Bob:

There are clients of mine that have had much success. They base all their goals on financial targets, now all of a sudden, they're saying great, I have all this money. I'm not very happy. Like, life isn't good, even though I've got lots of money in the bank. Then the question for me starts to become, what are you looking for? What do you want your life to be about? What do you want your legacy to be? What's the impact that you want to have, and for some people, it is having lots of money in the bank. But for most people, it's about actually having deep relationships. It's about having memorable life experiences. It's about being able to travel or do what you want when you want. Or even if you're on a budget, being able to do it within your means. That maybe I can't have everything, but I can have certain things if I actually set my mind to it, and for me, it actually means going back and looking at what are those values that I have? Or that I had? And are they still serving me, there are a lot of people out there that have gotten lucky, financially, and in the back of their minds, they're still waiting to be caught, or be waiting to be taken out. With that mindset, they always sort of look behind them to see when the shoe drops.

Brett:

That's really interesting. I want to try to pull some of that out, and then ask kind of another level of questions. I'm really defining what the outcome is for life. Not just your finances, the legacy of that deeper relationships, more time with family member life experiences, making sure you're connecting the one with the other, and know that they're interconnected. I think that's what I'm hearing you saying in the first part of it. Then obviously, defining your core values as well. Then you mentioned, you feel like they're getting caught. Walk us through that. That's kind of interesting. What are they getting caught with Bob? What are you gonna help them with?

Bob:

One of the big things out there, and it seems silly is this imposter syndrome. There's a lot of studies done on psychology and all of this where people think that they've gotten there by luck, they discount the fact that they have the education or they have the experience, or they have the tools. It's somewhere in the 70% range that people don't have the exact numbers in front of me. But it's a very high percentage of people that are waiting to get caught. It happens a little more often in women than it does in men. But there's a place where I'm just not really good enough. I've been faking it really well. Like there were about five years ago, five or six years ago, there was a guy, he was in the top 50. I think he's like 32nd, or 34th, the richest man in the world, dropped down into the 60s and committed suicide because he was so devastated that he wasn't in the top 50. Something's going on there besides looking at all of his wealth and saying, I've made it. There's some emotional stuff going on, that says, I didn't make it enough. I'm not worthy.

Brett:

That's staggering. Just think about that. 70% are waiting to get caught. What's the number one sign that perhaps you're waiting to get caught?

Bob:

We hear in our under voice, that voice that's actually talking to us all the time in our head that we're trying to ignore. When I go into a room with people, I do a workshop, I'll say to everybody who wants to be rich, I do. Everybody raises their hand, I want to be rich. Then I'll ask who deserves it? And you just everybody, I don't really deserve it. I was just hoping I could like, play the game. There's this voice that talks to us. Initially, we could say it was our parents, but at a certain point, it's really our voice may be disguised as our parents. That's the voice, we actually want to pay attention to the one that says you don't deserve it, something's gonna happen. It always goes wrong for you eventually, and start to hear that voice and say, Thank you, but you're not serving me anymore. You can move on.

Brett:

I think that's a good practical application. Who wants to be rich? And then who deserves it? And if those negative feelings or those, there could be guilt? It could be you feel, you don't deserve it, or you think it's just gonna, it's gonna go away? If you didn't really, you didn't really have any control over how you got here, therefore, perhaps you're out of control of when it's gonna go away? Is that a fair summary?

Bob:

Absolutely. It's not true for everybody. There are many people that will say, I deserve it, absolutely. I'm totally down with this. Those folks are not the people that I really need to help because they're already there. But there are a lot of people that yes, still have that belief, even when they're making millions of dollars. What if, what if, what if?

Brett:

What are the steps? Imagine that someone's there right now and they're saying, Bob, that's me. they're saying, Bob, how do I, how do I create a healthy relationship? What would be stepping maybe one, two, and three to help our listeners right now?

Bob:

The first thing would be to start to look back at childhood beliefs, childhood many Memories around money. What did mom dad say about money or not say about money? Were you allowed to discuss it? So really starting to look at what's my history around money. The other thing that I started to do is really get conscious of what I'm saying, I have a lot of high net worth clients that will say to me, I'm so broke, I have, I've just broken I, I'm not gonna be able to afford to run that payroll for the business. This, I'm so broke, I'll say, wait a minute, you've got like three houses, you've got a couple of million dollars in your investment portfolio. I don't know if you're broke that. Like, maybe that's not what it is. let's reframe that. Maybe I'm just cash flow is tight right now.

So really getting connected with the truth of the story. For a lot of people, and I'm guilty of this, I'll sit there, I'm looking at somebody's numbers, I'll say, that's so great. They've got a couple of houses, they've got a rental property, and they've got this. I wish I could, I actually I've gotten there. But I forget sometimes because I'm still back in that mindset of, I gotta keep going, I gotta keep going. I'll catch myself in the sad stories that aren't true. Checking it out and said, is that really true? Because a lot of times, it's not. The third thing then is, am I willing to start making changes that will actually better serve what I say I want? And so if I say I want to be able to buy a house, or I want to be able to travel? What are my current spending habits right now that are sabotaging these goals that I say I want in my life?

Brett:

Show us wisdom. I'm gonna try to pull for our listeners here. First of all, childhood beliefs. I'm also thinking about, scarcity mindset versus abundant mindset. Absolutely. Different generations grow with different money, beliefs and different habits in general, and realize what these beliefs and these mindsets are manifesting in your actions and in your relationship with money. See, that's number one. Number two words have power. What you're telling yourself and how you're saying it also can affect you emotionally, like, I'm broke versus like, no cash was a little bit tight right now. I might need to reorganize again, it's, it's defining who you are versus saying, I can go and do something about and have control. Whereas if you say, I'm broke that almost it's like a helpless state, I'm a victim. I can do nothing. But cash was a little bit tight right now. It's not, you're not overstating the reality. You're defining that. Then, which leads us to step number three, which is working to make changes, right. Actually going during the day doing the hard work of the budget in the data, right. Versus what you're what's coming in, and then making a plan to execute. Is that a fair summary? How do I do Bob?

Bob:

You did great. I think we've done this interview before.

Brett:

The first time people the first time. That's amazing, Bob. Tell us a little bit about it, and I'm actually I'm reading a book, and I'm actually flipping through it right now. It's called it's from Ray Dalio Principles For Success. He has a quote in this and I'm trying to find the quote, but one of the things that he says is that our ego prevents us from acknowledging our weaknesses. Yeah, we need to be right. can come before our need to know what's true. Yes, so we believe our opinions without testing them, or our getting maybe someone like Bob Wheeler, to help us flesh out some of these things. We especially don't like to look at ourselves, look at our mistakes and weaknesses, that affects our ego, who we are. It can threaten our self-image. We're still actively prone to react to exploits explorations of them as attacks. We just see them as people taxes. This leads to worse decisions, learning less and falling short of our potentials. that's really the bad thing here. If we don't face these things, and work through these things, especially if such a big thing like money, which affects marriages and business and future legacy, that it can create these blind spots, and it can create these areas of not reaching our potential. Would you talk a little bit about that? Does that resonate, Bob?

Creating a Healthy Relationship with Money: “A lot of people out there that have gotten lucky, financially, and in the back of their mind, they're still waiting to be caught, or be waiting to be taken out. With that mindset, they always sort of look behind them to see when the shoe drops.” – Bob Wheeler

Bob:

It totally resonates. We don't like to look at our blind spots. We like to think we know everything. It's really about what actually serves us. I have so many couples that come in for a meeting. The first thing they'll say is, Bob, we have dinner writing on this because we got to figure out who's right. Before I even answer, I'll say, well, let me ask you this. Are you playing on opposite teams? Are you trying to actually work together? And they'll be like, oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, we're a team, but secretly, they're trying to get their wins in.

I think that's a great thing for a lot of couples to look at and decide, am I in it to win it? Or am I in it to be in a relationship and really be a powerhouse couple, the powerhouse team? This blind spot for me is not wanting as it keeps me in victimhood. If if I don't have control over these things, and I don't have to look at them, then I can't actually change them. But if I'm willing to say, I really made some bad choices here, I got caught up, I got, I wanted to show off, I want to people be impressed. If I can look at that, and realize that I can actually stop, take a breath, get a little more grounded, and then make a different choice where I'm not feeding my ego, because the more we feed our ego, I think, I think the less evolved and the less connected we are to what we actually want. Because if I'm not looking at my blind spots, and knowing where I excelled, and where I faltered, then I've just gotten it done. It's all luck, the good and the bad.

Brett:

Someone who isn't there, Bob, I love the way you put that. Are we a team? And are we working together? Are we in competition to prove what's right? Sometimes we don't even realize we're in that mindset. All of a sudden, we in this book called Crucial Conversations, where goes through this, and all of a sudden, we're in like this high stakes thing.it can be highly emotional, highly charged, and feel like we're in its attack and counter-attack. That's not good. This book goes on to say that he learned that doing things in a kind of a different way, and realizing his blind spots and not going out of the loan. then the next thing was to say to achieve his goals, he had to replace the joy of being right, with the joy of learning what's true. This is like, jumped out at me like wow, so would you speak to how perhaps you help others do that to trade that ego, pride, to a being right and in holding your position to creating joy for finding out what's true.

Bob:

It's, we love we do we love to be right. It just feels good. When we get that when you know what it makes me think of I had, I was doing a workshop and this woman came to me and she said, Look, I really want us, my husband, I get our finances in order, but he's terrible with all this stuff. How do I get him to fix his ways? And I said, Well, it's probably not going to happen if you come at it that way. Because I know if you came to me and told me everything I was doing wrong, I'm not going to work with you. I'm already on the defence. I'm going to prove you wrong, even though if I know even though I know you're telling the truth. What I actually said to her is maybe you could actually have a conversation with your husband and tell him that you want to get on track and that you want to really figure out how to do better. Would he be willing to work with you? Looking at how you could do better? And she said, maybe I could try that. Where she's taking away the defence’s because she's actually coming to him saying Help me. We all love to help people mostly. It's a great way to defuse something. instead of attacking him, she was actually engaging him and saying, Look, I need to do better, instead of you, you, you. It's I'm actually trying to get on track. The more we can disarm people in that way, and actually not make them wrong, and make them our allies. I think the further we go.

Brett:

So much wisdom that I love that I want. I want to get on track and I want to do better. Can you help me? It's leading with humility and openness to how you can change. Give enough people what they want, you get everything you want, versus asking. Give me, give me, give me right. You give, give, give. Then let's see if we can we can all come together. Is that a fair summary?

Bob:

That's a fair summary.

Brett:

Do you want to geek out a little bit now? We did a lot of psychology there. You want to geek out a little bit now about capital gains tax like you're like, sure we're like, What in the world? What are we talking about this stuff? Well, it's all-important. This is all because you're making big decisions. When you go to sell your highly appreciated asset, your business, your real estate, your cryptocurrency, your emotional state and your outcome and clarifying your health with your money matters. so it's one in both It can't be just all financial logical. It's got to be emotional and behavioural. Making sure that you're in the right mindset, emotionally, and, and on the numbers-wise, makes so much sense. You ready, Bob? We're gonna geek out a little bit about capital gains tax.

Bob:

Let's do it.

Brett:

All right.Bob, a lot of people before they find us. They're frustrated, they like, I got this 1031 that I want to overpay for I'm tired of the toilet trash liability. I've owned this apartment complex in West Hollywood for 20 years.it used to be so easy. Now there's rent control and there was all this. I'm ready to retire but I'm facing 30 to 50% in capital gains tax depreciation recapture. I don't want to trade 20 units. I have 20 problems. I don't need 40 problems like I want no problems right? But they feel trapped in this 1031 loop. I'm curious what's the biggest frustration you've seen when it comes to clients and it can be selling cryptocurrency businesses real estate, with capital gains? tax deferral and or the 1031 exchange?

Bob:

I think the biggest thing is a lot of people don't plan ahead. when I'm looking at, like, when I've got people retiring, they've got some rental property, we take a look at, do we want to let's maybe we sell the main house and get that 250 or 500,000, exemption, and, and then move into the rental property. Maybe we're going to live in that totally pass or, or something. But trying to defer that gain is something that a lot of people don't think about. They're like, well, I don't really want to move. I don't want to do that. That's inconvenient. to me, it's about really being strategic. I'm surprised how many people don't know the rules. I think if you're going to invest, no matter what you're doing, find out the rules or work with somebody that does know the rules.

I had a guy that sold about a couple million dollars worth of stocks, and he sold them a day short of a long term capital gain. He'd been trading for years. I said to him, what happened here? Why didn't you wait the extra day? He's like, What are you talking about? I said, Wait a minute, you don't know that if you hold it a year and a day. It's a long time ago, I never heard that rule. To me, I said, Well, this is how much extra pain in tax. He's like, I won't forget that. But it's to me this last year, so many people got hit with, I had several clients with $750 million worth of wash sales. I'm like, you owe a lot of money. They're like, no, I have losses. No, you had wash sales, you didn't pay attention. I saw that as a really big problem this year. For me, a lot of it is not taking the time to be strategic, talking with somebody else that knows the rules that can help you out so that you can figure out okay, does the 1031 Exchange make sense in this case, or maybe it's just better to pay the capital gains because I've got $700,000, from the capital losses somewhere else that are going to just eat into that game. Because a lot of people don't take that into consideration. When I'm working with advisors, I'm always saying, let's look at any capital loss carryforward before we decide what losses we're going to cultivate.

Brett:

Not taking the time to plan, not take. Maybe it's inconvenient if it's the 1021 exclusion live in the house to the last five years that Obama was referring to you have a $500,000, tax exemption, which is really nice. If you bought a house for a million and you sell it for 1.5. You're good, there's no tax if you live there for to last five years, and you're married. You mentioned wash sales, I want to make sure our clients aren't missing that right, by the way, we have a solution for the Deferred Sales Trust with a Deferred Sales Trust to defer public or private stock. Also, cryptocurrency not using a 1031 Exchange for so if anyone's thinking, Oh, no, I'm gonna sell some public stock. But I want to defer the capital gains tax, we can do that and go to CapitalGainsTaxSolutions.com. But let's talk about the wash sales there. Bob like to find that, so make sure people understand exactly what you're saying.

Bob:

If I go out, and let's say just, for example, I sell some apple stock, that's probably not realistic, but I sell some Apple stock, and I lose a whole bunch of money. I sold, 50 shares, and I lose all this money. Then within 30 days, I go out and buy more Apple stock. I'm thinking I'm gonna get to capture all these losses that I just picked up, and I got so smart, I bought within 30 days, I bought some more stuff, you're not going to get to recognize that loss. When you come tax time, you're going to have to wait, that's going to get kicked down the kick down the pike. So what happens is people think they're going to capture all these losses. If they've done it within 30 days, they will not be seeing those losses.

Brett:

Got it. You want to make sure that it's 30 days or more. If I, if I bought apple stock, let's say for a million bucks, and it dropped to 800,000. I was like, take that loss there. I immediately bought something else, at the low and it wrote up to 400,000. It doesn't matter, you're not going to be able to sell it 400,000 and offset 200 of that. Because you bought a button but had I bought that same stock 31 days from the time that I sold. The same thing happened, then I'd be able to write it off. Is that a fair summary?

Bob:

That's absolutely right.

Brett:

Okay, perfect. Excellent. Okay. That being said, are you ready for the lightning round?

Bob:

Let's do it.

Brett:

All right, knowing what you know now, if you can go back to your 25-year-old self, what's the one golden nugget make sure to tell yourself to do? take more risks. Second question, what's the number one book you'd recommend or give to the most in the past year?

Bob:

The Power of Focus by Jack Canfield.

Brett:

All right, next question we are most curious about right now.

Bob:

What am I most curious about more of my blind spots?

Brett:

Second, the last question, what's the number one leadership quote or theme that you strive to live by?

Bob:

I would say, that's a quote. I just stepped into leadership, I see your future be your future live with integrity.

Brett:

Last question for our listeners. Is this after all your success helping the people you help, right in the book you've written by the way, please share that book here, as before you start this question? We know how to grab that as well. How do you stay centred bobbing in your values? And how do you stay encouraged to charge to reach new heights?

Bob:

I really tried to stay humble and grateful. I travel a lot, and especially to developing countries to remind myself how fortunate I am. I really am humbled by so many people in the world that don't have it as well as I do, who are compassionate, giving kind and would give you the last shirt off their back. For me, being humbled and grateful. I, my friends all know this, if I get myself too high up on a pedestal, that they lovingly kindly help me off the pedestal rather than push me off with great force. I want to try to just continue to be humbled.

Brett:

Bob, I want to thank you for being on the show, I want you to remind us one last time where we can find you for people who want to get in connect connection with you and remind us of that book that you had released.

Bob:

It is TheMoneyNerve.com, not nerd. I'm a nerd, but it's TheMoneyNerve.com And people can reach me there. The book, The Money Nerve: Navigating The Emotions Of Money you can get on Amazon, our website and all other kinds of bookstores, we'd love you to check us out.

Brett:

Bob Wheeler. Thanks for being on the show. I want to encourage you to keep using the gifts and talents you've been given of having a great sense of humour, helping people to see their perhaps their blind spots on their money emotions, and then be willing to listen and to help them overcome these challenges that they're facing. I also want to thank our listeners for listening to that episode of the Capital Gains Tax Solutions Podcast. As always, we believe most high net worth individuals and those who help them they struggle with clarifying their capital gains tax deferral options. Not having a clear plan is the enemy of using a proven tax deferral strategy such as the Deferred Sales Trust is the best way for you to exit high in primary homes, forget about that 1021 Exclusion, you can move out right now and defer the tax.

If you want to use the Deferred Sales Trust to do that cryptocurrency public or private stock, whatever you need, as long as it has a $1 million net proceeds and $1 million gain, we can help you go to CapitalGainsTaxSolutions.com and schedule your one on one consultation, no cost for yourself or your clients. You can also join a Mastermind it happens every Friday at 10 am It's free and it's for everybody at 10 am Pacific Standard Time at 1 pm Eastern, where we talk about all things Deferred Sales Trust, and try to make it really simple for everybody. Thanks so much for watching or listening to this show. I want to encourage you to Rate, Review, Subscribe and if you're out there and the Expert CRE Secrets world thank you so much for watching as well and listening and please come back to us.